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  • David Rice is an internationally recognized information security professional and an accomplished educator and visionary. For a decade he has advised, counseled, and defended global IT networks for government and private industry.

    David has been awarded by the U.S. Department of Defense for “significant contributions” advancing security of critical national infrastructure and global networks. Additionally, David has authored numerous IT security courses and publications, teaches for the prestigious SANS Institute, and has served as adjunct faculty at James Madison University. He is a frequent speaker at information security conferences and currently Director of The Monterey Group.

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January 11, 2008

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AllAboutVoting

From the open source discussion:

>The customer unfortunately picked a project
>that, for one reason or another, is now
>defunct. Instead of abandoning the defunct
>product, the customer must now invest in
>maintaining a declining status quo
No. They can choose to do this. No one is forcing them to do anything. There are all sorts of things that a customer can choose to do that may be good or poor choices from the customer's point of view but that is no reason to limit their options.

You argue that allowing the option work on a defunct product is bad since the product should become defunct since economic resources would be used more efficiently in that case. In other words, you argue that the existence of these options produces negative externalities.

An issue with that:

It violates the capitalistic principle that many actors behaving in a selfish manner produces an effective business ecosystem. The most efficient way to address negative externalities are to price them into the market. But in this case it already is priced into the market. As you correctly pointed out the usual customer response to a defunct open source project is to 'Grumble'. They will only enhance the project if they consider this to be valuable to them relative to the costs. And the cost is labor by programmers who can instead pursue other projects instead if those projects are more lucrative or interesting to them. So there is a free-market economic decision by both the consumer and the laborers.

mwarden

You continue to show that you do not understand open source. This is typical of individuals coming from the business world, because it does not fit into your idea of how such projects should work.

The point that was made regarding sustainability is because of the licensing model. It doesn't have anything to do with finding another volunteer developer to pick up the slack if the first dips out. The point is that the user can do whatever he/she/they want to with the application and its source code. If the project tanks and the company decides it would benefit from sustaining the project, it could further develop it in-house. Or it could decide to use the last version and only patch it if necessary.

You do not have these options with closed source.

If you aren't familiar with the countless stories of a user company getting screwed because it chose a product from a company that burst in the dot com bubble, then I have to honestly question your knowledge of the field.

I was going to purchase your book after reading the review on /., but I think this issue has changed my mind. I think you would have been better off omitting the closed source topic entirely.

dre

Here is one point I wanted to address. Still reading all the rest - thanks for the long post.

The fact that binaries can be read does not mean it is easily readable for a majority of market participants. Once upon a time @stake tried to write a binary analysis tool to check commercial software for vulnerabilities. The tool, and many like it, are chock full of inconsistencies not because the tool is necessarily bad, but because trying to figure out what a binary actual accomplishes can be quite cumbersome and difficult

That @stake product is now Veracode's SecurityReview SaaS product, which is CWE-Compatible. I disagree with your perspective on it. The open-source project, bugreport (discussed at BlackHat 2006), also provides quite a bit in this area of research that could be proof that your perspective may be a bit dated.

On this topic, I did want to make some suggestions. First of all, most modern software is written in languages that are either a) easily decompiled (e.g. Java with Jad or Jode, VB or C# .NET with Reflector or Salamander, and Flash with Flare), b) have the code available in the browser (e.g. Ajax + other RIA/RCP frameworks) or c) roughly decompiled (e.g. C/C++ with IDA + HexRays, including Classic ASP and ActiveX).

Finally, what about instances of closed-sourced software being stolen and widely distributed underground - such as the case with Microsoft Windows NT/2000, Cisco IOS (various versions), and Half Life 2 / Steam? These types of code leaks are one of the vicious arguments against security by obscurity in addition to commercial, closed-source in general.

lefty.crupps

I am interested in your book but I really expected to see more of an understanding of Open Source software, and its differentiation with Free software, and the contrast to Proprietary software. Even this blog posting followup seems to be missing some understanding, which makes me question the book's understanding.

As I see it, insecure software is best replaced with Free, Open Source software in nearly every case, because it is in every customer's interest to have software which *they* own (not license), which *they* can help to fix (if needed, but *all* software has bugs), and which *they* can possibly support for just a small sum in comparison to its benefits. The flip side is being stuck with a black box where you have no idea on its quality or inner workings -- even if 'secure' in the vendor's eyes, it doesn't mean it is insecure for your needs or even actively works against you (as in, malware).

And more and more to blather about, but this is your blog, not my own. I'll have to check the book out anyways, so thank you.

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